Viral videos of a confrontation in Times Square involving a group of men and NYPD officers on Jan. 27 have been generating controversy and discussion.
The first videos depicted a rapidly deteriorating scene in which a group of young men set upon two members of the NYPD after being told to move.
Longer-running videos and audio later showed the crowd dispersing and then police moving in to make an arrest after one of the men insulted them.
“All Things Considered” host Sean Carlson recently discussed the case with Pace University Law School professor Ben Gershman. The former prosecutor says the sequence of events – an insult apparently directed at police and the police’s subsequent reaction, followed by chaos – could matter in a courtroom down the road.
Here is a transcript of their conversation, which was edited for length and clarity.
Carlson: Professor Gershman, welcome to “All Things Considered.”
Gershman: Thank you, Sean.
The longer video indicates that police seemed to react after being criticized. One of the dispersing men was plainly heard to say in Spanish, “he looks like Ugly Betty,” a reference to the telenovela character, and then he was arrested. Why does this matter?
Well, sure, it matters. It matters as a matter of constitutional law. It matters under the First Amendment. The courts have said over and over again that you can use words, even harsh words, insults, vile language, as long as there’s no public disorder going on. The law is very clear. The police are not allowed to respond with force. I mean, the principle is very clear. People have a right to express themselves, even in very strong language, and even in language that is harsh and critical and offensive.
Now, legally speaking, professor, is it incumbent upon police and other first responders to just take it when it comes to verbal insults? Is there a limit?
Yes, Sean. I mean, the police can respond and say, “don’t talk like that.” But again, the police have to take comments and words and…
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